Off topic here, but most recent post...with route concepts...an idea I have is to have a "frontside" route combo that we tag and then the backside routes automatically become a choice type set of routes. I know it's out there probably. But for consistency, if we call a smash to the right, should we default 1 backside route as a cross and another as seam reader. Why do this? Our QB is not really capable of going through a progression. I also boot and roll out quite a bit. Thoughts?
Yeah, my comment seems short sighted...I am speaking more for our freshmen and below. I really can't make that statement from JV up.
I think any kid can go through a progression, but I am a believer in shrinking the field of vision. This helps the younger QB with the scan time as well as footwork and arm strength deficiencies. I know this shrinks the field that the def. covers too but I find that most teams play zone on us and we get to flood it that way.
I think that a cross and seam reader both work with 5 step drop..
As per the link you left, I've read that before, but it's hard to decipher without going through the R4 system. I DO teach my QB to read the "flat defender" and we talk about how it could be the OLB or the Corner or the Safety. I am pretty sure that is what he means..
The R4 is about packaging your entire passing game. It takes into account the quarterback drop with the routes and how the quarterback should process this; presnap/postsnap read (into the plant), hitch into the secondary read, then hitch into the backup hot, and if necessary, the outlet. It all works together.
So, no matter what you're faced with, the quarterback has a consistent read progression method, regardless of the route concept.
It isn't anything revolutionary, in fact, it has a lot of similarity in how quarterbacks are taught to progress in Air Raid (though many Air Raid concepts are made more efficient, imo, with R4 applied). You aren't reading the whole field, and most concepts (within air raid) fit within a triangle). You don't have to know coverages (though R4 covers it), though it helps to understand how the route concept applies itself.
The bottom line, though, is that the quarterback should be trained to have a route to go to on his plant. If that route is taken away there should be a complimentary route available to answer for why that first route is disqualified....this is essentially how R4 works (Rhythm,Read,Rush,Release).
For example, with NCAA/Post-Shallow, you have a vertical route by X. This is the presnap read....if the coverage/alignment favors it, you go to it on the plant; no questions. This would typically be open versus a press corner (cover 0 / cover 1).
If presnap disqualifies it, okay, now we're talking the progression. The backside Post by Z would be the rhythm (on the plant) attacking the MOF (Cover 2). If MOF is closed (1-high) with a middle of the field safety (because you've already determined that the cover 1 / cover 0 look weren't available), then you're in some type of Cover 3. How can you attack a 3-deep coverage? behind the linebackers.....this is where the Read portion would come in, to the Dig by H. Positioning on the H by the defenders (if he is collisioned or they are so close that they close the route) would determine if the quarterback can immediately throw the Dig/Hunt route on the first hitch (off the plant).
If its there; he throws it. If not, now he's running out of time and must throw the hot concept immediately (shallow) on his second hitch, based on all the reasons why the other routes were disqualified (the shallow being open because you have deep defenders negating the fly/fade and post.....underneath defenders deep enough to rob the dig).
If even the shallow isn't there - he just has to dump it (F shoot) to a Release (or just run it himself)....because if ALL of those previous routes were disqualified then the only other options are a flaring back or a quarterback run). If you go through the progressions like this, you likely will never need to throw the Rush/Release routes, but they afford the quarterback confidence in knowing he has an answer for whatever happens after the snap.
I see. You kind of see it like we do. I always teach the QB to be greedy. We peak at any deep route on presnap (unless the package has all short routes)...we then go from there in a similar fashion that you have described. It is just not as developed for each concept, which is my fault. We wouldn't usually get to the rush or release routes based on our previous years of work. The problem I might have is to take the concepts we have (given to me by varsity coach) and make the reads fit this philosophy of progressions. Thanks again.
Off topic here, but most recent post...with route concepts...an idea I have is to have a "frontside" route combo that we tag and then the backside routes automatically become a choice type set of routes. I know it's out there probably. But for consistency, if we call a smash to the right, should we default 1 backside route as a cross and another as seam reader.
ReplyDeleteWhy do this? Our QB is not really capable of going through a progression. I also boot and roll out quite a bit. Thoughts?
that might work for quick game or roll out, but what of 5-step?
ReplyDeleteIts not unheard of, but I first I would seriously question this
"Our QB is not really capable of going through a progression"
Progression is all about how we teach the concept - anyone can do it and there is no excuse for the quarterback NOT to do it
http://movethemchains.blogspot.com/2010/05/r4-new-age-of-quarterback-decision.html
Yeah, my comment seems short sighted...I am speaking more for our freshmen and below. I really can't make that statement from JV up.
ReplyDeleteI think any kid can go through a progression, but I am a believer in shrinking the field of vision. This helps the younger QB with the scan time as well as footwork and arm strength deficiencies. I know this shrinks the field that the def. covers too but I find that most teams play zone on us and we get to flood it that way.
I think that a cross and seam reader both work with 5 step drop..
As per the link you left, I've read that before, but it's hard to decipher without going through the R4 system. I DO teach my QB to read the "flat defender" and we talk about how it could be the OLB or the Corner or the Safety. I am pretty sure that is what he means..
Thanks for the input.
The R4 is about packaging your entire passing game. It takes into account the quarterback drop with the routes and how the quarterback should process this; presnap/postsnap read (into the plant), hitch into the secondary read, then hitch into the backup hot, and if necessary, the outlet. It all works together.
ReplyDeleteSo, no matter what you're faced with, the quarterback has a consistent read progression method, regardless of the route concept.
It isn't anything revolutionary, in fact, it has a lot of similarity in how quarterbacks are taught to progress in Air Raid (though many Air Raid concepts are made more efficient, imo, with R4 applied). You aren't reading the whole field, and most concepts (within air raid) fit within a triangle). You don't have to know coverages (though R4 covers it), though it helps to understand how the route concept applies itself.
The bottom line, though, is that the quarterback should be trained to have a route to go to on his plant. If that route is taken away there should be a complimentary route available to answer for why that first route is disqualified....this is essentially how R4 works (Rhythm,Read,Rush,Release).
For example, with NCAA/Post-Shallow, you have a vertical route by X. This is the presnap read....if the coverage/alignment favors it, you go to it on the plant; no questions. This would typically be open versus a press corner (cover 0 / cover 1).
If presnap disqualifies it, okay, now we're talking the progression. The backside Post by Z would be the rhythm (on the plant) attacking the MOF (Cover 2). If MOF is closed (1-high) with a middle of the field safety (because you've already determined that the cover 1 / cover 0 look weren't available), then you're in some type of Cover 3. How can you attack a 3-deep coverage? behind the linebackers.....this is where the Read portion would come in, to the Dig by H. Positioning on the H by the defenders (if he is collisioned or they are so close that they close the route) would determine if the quarterback can immediately throw the Dig/Hunt route on the first hitch (off the plant).
If its there; he throws it. If not, now he's running out of time and must throw the hot concept immediately (shallow) on his second hitch, based on all the reasons why the other routes were disqualified (the shallow being open because you have deep defenders negating the fly/fade and post.....underneath defenders deep enough to rob the dig).
If even the shallow isn't there - he just has to dump it (F shoot) to a Release (or just run it himself)....because if ALL of those previous routes were disqualified then the only other options are a flaring back or a quarterback run). If you go through the progressions like this, you likely will never need to throw the Rush/Release routes, but they afford the quarterback confidence in knowing he has an answer for whatever happens after the snap.
we kinda sorta tried to take a look at using R4 with the quick game a while ago....
ReplyDeletehttp://brophyfootball.blogspot.com/2009/07/slack-r4-with-coverdale-quick-game.html
this really doesn't even apply to quick game, but you can see the same methodology being attempted to carry over
I see. You kind of see it like we do. I always teach the QB to be greedy. We peak at any deep route on presnap (unless the package has all short routes)...we then go from there in a similar fashion that you have described. It is just not as developed for each concept, which is my fault.
ReplyDeleteWe wouldn't usually get to the rush or release routes based on our previous years of work. The problem I might have is to take the concepts we have (given to me by varsity coach) and make the reads fit this philosophy of progressions.
Thanks again.